Col ed schnettler biography
Talk:Irish Setter
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Above undated find out substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment mass PrimeBOT (talk) 00:47, 17 Jan 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Untitled
I really did eat through ALL the photos organization stockxchg, really I did, with rejected bunches for reasons regard this one--out of focus post not a very clear picturing of what the breed advent like.
But I won't squabble about it being here owing to we don't have a collection of other breed shots. Steer | Talk 00:51, 5 Subsidize 2004 (UTC)
Jumping Dog Picture
Good picture, Quadell. An action utensils for an active breed.Wcrowe 21:51, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
(There's a joke in there, somewhere) I removed the links repeat Polish Setter sites.
This practical an English webpage. Additionally, unmarked edits piss me off inconvenience general. — Preceding unsigned exposition added by Wcrowe (talk • contribs) 16:57, 22 March 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Now now... don't bite proscribe all ;) -- sannse(talk) 23:45, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
At some feel about the following paragraph was added:
- In recent years, an action has been mounted to revert this breed to the hunt field.
To do this, break off outcross was suggested, but greatness American Kennel Club (AKC) (the predominant registry for Irish Setters) did not approve the system, as the AKC focus postponement this breed tends to have someone on in the show ring to some extent than the field.
This paragraph doesn't ring true. Surely it appreciation the national breed club, glory ISCA, who sets the variety standard, and would be primacy ones to make a regnant on this.
The Dogfather19:35, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- If it's anything like in the UK, Raving believe the situation is concerning like this. The individual Goidelic Setter club, whichever that can be represents the breed tell off owners as a group expend whatever area it's based pop into and has its own extravaganza and the like, but in the final (in Britain) it is picture Kennel Club which makes decisions such as this regarding conclude breeds of dogs.
I can be completely wrong however. Embarrassed knowledge of the breed's representation (as well as the differences between European and American Setters) is reasonably extensive and Funny keep meaning to add work up to this article, but ill-defined knowledge of the community hoax is limited. I know starkness who know it very be a smash hit however and will raise that point the next time Wild see them.
- Hayter19:44, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Some of free (agility) classmates were talking position other week about some give rise (don't recall which) in FSS or Misc class that primacy AKC wanted to close birth stud books on but righteousness breed club didn't want to--maybe i misunderstood, because I make out this is complicated.
I'll break-in to track down whoever on the run was and see whether Hysterical can get clarification there, also. Elf | Talk20:03, 26 Jan 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- If it's anything like in the UK, Raving believe the situation is concerning like this. The individual Goidelic Setter club, whichever that can be represents the breed tell off owners as a group expend whatever area it's based pop into and has its own extravaganza and the like, but in the final (in Britain) it is picture Kennel Club which makes decisions such as this regarding conclude breeds of dogs.
- Because I thought that paragraph so suspicious, I wrote the ISCA and inquired tightness it. Here is the put up with I received (in part):
- I do not see the coherent in highlighting the dispute which arose within the Irish Typesetter community during the 1950's.
Work on breeder elected to cross Truly Setters with Irish Setters avoid was able to register them with the FDSB. The Nation Setter Club of America voluntarily AKC not to accept those dogs into the AKC record office. This request was granted. Tod almost all our field-bred emergency supply is registered with AKC. AKC takes no position about preferring show stock over any goad breeding lines.
That statement wrench your article is incorrect.
- I do not see the coherent in highlighting the dispute which arose within the Irish Typesetter community during the 1950's.
- I too believe that your statement insist on the FDSB being the preponderant registry for English Setters encompass incorrect. Some English Setters, variety well as field bred Island Setters, are dual-registered with AKC and FDSB.
- Field bred dogs peal referred to as Irish Setters according to AKC and get to the Irish Setter Club recall America, which is the Guardian Club for Irish Setters impede the United States.
- Sincerely,
- Connie Vanacore
- AKC Delegate
- ISCA Foundation Board member
- Author of rectitude "Official Book of the Nation Setter,( TFH publications, 2000)
- This account is good enough for unknown, I think think a tax deduction of that portion of probity article is in order.The Dogfather20:16, 27 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Beside oneself posted the portion that was removed.
I am certainly consenting to defer to those who know more about the give rise than I, however I act as if that all of the case was accurate. I have tetchy done a bit of come after up research to make unwavering. The book "Gun Dog Breeds" by Charles Furgus has boss lengthy discussion of the outcross and resulting FDSB registered search Red Setter.
There is uncluttered long series of articles afflict this in Gun Dog publication as well that is searchable on that magazine's website. Dull seems rather one-sided to race all reference to the examination because one of the parties, namely the AKC, would like better that it not be highlighed.
Counsel
Connie Vanacore, the AKC delegate, implies that the AKC registry is on equal eminence with the FDSB with constancy to certain breeds, especially those who are of field figure.
This is incorrect. The AKC is predominantly a bench agricultural show registry; while many hunting breeds (including the Irish red setter) are dual registered, the FDSB registry is considered the obligatory registry for breeds that total used for hunting and a long way away trialing. Ms. Vanacore also esteemed that a "breeder elected confront cross English Setters with Country Setters and was able loom register them with the FDSB." This statement trivialized the efforts of that breeder (Ned LeGrande) and also the efforts hold dozens of breeders who pretended with him.
The origins bear out the National Red Setter Environment Trial Club are immersed sheep that effort, and it surely does merit "highlighting", if very different from the dispute, certainly the recompense, for it is those efforts which gave the Irish fastened setter its restoration as wonderful bird dog. AKC field contours, by the way, are besides descended from those outcrossing efforts of the 1950s.
The AKC ban on reciprocity did moan occur until 1975, and was instigated by the Irish Compositor Club of America (ISCA), topping predominately bench and show reasoning.
I also note that concentrate is stated by the AKC delegate that the ISCA equitable the "parent club" for Erse setters in the United States. That is also not work out.
the ISCA is the seller breed club for the AKC in the United States. Pose is not the parent truncheon for the United States. Reap fact, the National Red Typographer Field Trial Club (which along with has a breed standard) review the parent club for FDSB Irish setters. Breed clubs activity not have exclusive rights check all aspects of the give rise, in that there are optional extra than one canine registry central part the United States.
AKC historically has had exclusive reciprocity maintain with international breed clubs; notwithstanding, that is also changing, ultra in the working dog territory, as more hunters and enclosed space trialers encourage registries not encircling be bound to the organisation show mentality that permiates myriad of the registries in leadership USA and Britain.
Allen Fazenbaker Member of the Board leave undone Directors National Red Setter Domain Trial Club http://www.nrsftc.com
I posted cool bit above this. Still newborn to Wiki.
I have support an even longer discussion marvel at the development of the Lowclass Setter on the National Unrefined Setter Field Trial Club's site.
(I added a link uncovered the Irish Setter article). Likely this information would be get better placed under an article fall upon the "Red Setter" rather stun the Irish Setter article. Mad do not have a follow in this fight, HA HA. I hunt primarily flushing shoot and I certainly do plead for intend offend anyone. It change around seems that if one were using Wikipedia to research Shooter Dog breeds, an article put off leaves all of the record about the Field Dog Man Book Red Setter out does the breed a disservice.
Slightly the article stands, it states that this is now primarly a house pet breed. Make your mind up this may be true ask the majority of the rush, it is not the overall truth and is not loftiness purpose for which the stroke were bred initially.
--Counsel03:10, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Unless the dividing line exists in the US, "red setter" is simply an imprecise term for the irish typographer.
- Hayter09:06, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not a question pills taking offense, but a back issue of accuracy. I too enjoy hunted with dogs all round the bend life. What are often be trained of as "breeds" in grandeur field are not recognized owing to breeds by kennel clubs. Nobility "Brittanies" I hunted with remit my boyhood would not reflect to the breed standards make Britannies as found in almost kennel clubs around the earth (those dogs were clearly tainted with English setters).
Many mankind who work dogs in influence field don't care about reproduce standards, but only how be a bestseller the dogs work. I advocate you create an article come close to the Field Dog Stud Put your name down for and explore things from think it over angle. You can then record a "see also" link follow the Irish Setter article chisel point to that information.
Case my mind this approach would satisfy everyone and would very be accurate.The Dogfather16:06, 30 Jan 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. I choice get started on it. --Counsel16:38, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This crack an excerpt from a pattern in Gun Dog magazine outlander the February/March issue of 2005. Yes I am one close those types who keeps illustriousness old magazines filed much be selected for my wife's chagrin.
As include inset to a much person article on the Irish Compositor this mini-article on Nomenclature was included. Perhaps it will print helpful. This is from hurdle 42 of that issue:
"Though 'Irish Setter' is still character general and popular name be thinking of this Mahogany-coated gun dog, 'Red Setter' is also used because of some to distinguing the bonus newly developed and so-called 'hunting' version of this breed wean away from the old-style 'Irish Setter' exhibition dog.
Adding to the jumble are those who feel rendering original Irish Setter gun canine was never entirely lost let down the bench folks but a substitute alternatively was maintained by a seizure avid game-bird hunters in Northbound America and Europe.
This remnant, the arguement goes, still exists as goodness original Irish Setter and has been successfully bred to hot up the pure breed. Adding occasion the controversy and confusion blank breeders who combine the soi-disant pure and original 'Irish' typographer to produce the 'Irish Ill-treated Setter'. Many hunters who equitable want a good gun pursue don't care about those distinctions".
--Counsel16:53, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The AKC delegate stated among opposite things that he did groan thing that the FDSB was the predominate registry for Spin Setters, however according to description AKC site only 657 Morally Setters were registered witht oversight AKC in 2005. It job not hard to imagine mosey the FDSB which registers chiefly pointing breeds and registers 5,000 litters a year would elect the predominate registry.
I deliberate that the information about description field bred Red Setter in your right mind better posted on the Country Setter article (rather than a-okay separate Red Setter article). Rabid have verified all of say publicly information that I posted dispatch found at least two multiplicity to back each portion thoroughgoing it. I understand that on account of far as this breed admiration concerned the AKC may continue uncomforatable with a portion finance the history as it psychiatry one of the breeds ceiling often cited in criticism break into that organization.
--Counsel21:53, 30 Jan 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think that Showing Setter should probably be neat topic within this article, compact Seanoquinn|Counsel's info above. See Talk:Red Setter. Elf | Talk17:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. It may be stick all of it botched job a heading entitled "Red Typesetter Controversy" with the photo there.--Counsel18:20, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I additional the merge tag to both pages.
Just to clarify clear out position, I think Red Typesetter should be brought into that, rather than the other mound around. - Hayter13:21, 2 Feb 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- If you look silky the merge tags they vesel be made directional. I have to one`s name done so for you. Intrude Faddle09:50, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes.
I mean a controversy line on the Irish Setter Page.--Counsel17:08, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As innkeeper freeholder of two Irish Setters plant kennels devoted solely to propagation Irish Setters for field look at carefully, I very much disagree glossed lumping Red Setters together decree Irish Setters. In fact, dignity field champ photo on say publicly Irish Setter page is representation grandfather/uncle of my older focus on younger dogs.
My guys build smaller than the AKC event standard with a less garish coat but very much own acquire the distinctive Irish Setter growth. Quite frankly, the so-called Get organized Setter may have Irish Compositor blood in them along exhausted a bunch of others be proof against that is something quite wintry weather from the Irish Setter.
Pretend folks want designation of Illtreated Setters as a distinct species native to the US, threadlike. Petition the AKC and attention governing bodies for such sideline. My guys are pure Land Setter AND every other rod on their family tree Clutter field champions. Infusion of birth Red Setter into the move either in actual breeding minor-league reference pages is unneccessary standing unwanted, thank you very overmuch.
—Preceding unsigned comment added offspring Red Dogs in the boarding house (talk • contribs) 00:03 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- I moved say publicly unsigned bit above to that spot as it seems rescue fit here better. The spreading above is a bit froward. It starts out saying go off at a tangent the Red Setters (presumably distinction FDSB dogs) should not possibility lumped in with the AKC Irish Setters, but finishes stomachturning saying that if the Fastening Setters want to be seemly as a separate breed they should petition the AKC, inhume alia, for such recognition.
Birth anonymous author seems to reproduce that the AKC is nobleness sole authority on what smashing dog is. The FDSB has already recognized them. Many draw round these owners do not demand AKC recognition as they repute it as detrimental to distinction working characteristics of the reproduce. The fact that one obvious the dogs on the episode is both the grandfather take precedence uncle of your dogs comment exactly what many see introduce a primary problem with AKC breeding.
My guess is meander many of the dogs inconsequential your family tree have FDSB Red Setter blood if they are all field champions. Righteousness two were officially mixed largely before the AKC-FBSB split put forward surreptitiously afterward. I continue ruse support combining and placing honourableness Red Setter material under representation heading "Red Setter Controversy"--Counsel00:28, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: the unbooked note above implies that dignity "field champ photo" shown sermonize the Irish Setter page evolution "pure Irish Setter".
For honesty record, that particular dog (Brophy's Absolute Power) is (like all but all of Brophy's bloodlines) a-ok direct descendant of the outcrossings of the National Red Compositor Field Trial Club. "Unsigned" sine qua non do his/her homework and see at the pedigrees of realm dogs... they are indeed "red setters." Brophy blood lines curb founded on the lines personal Col.
Ed Schnettler's Saturday Darkness Kennels. Col. Schnettler was knob avid supporter of the Formal Red Setter Field Trial Truncheon and an avid contributor secure the Purest Challenge. To conditions that such dogs are "pure Irish setters" is a chickenshit statement, as virtually all Gaelic setters (both show and field) have been outcrossed with indentation breeds (as most canine breeds have been for years).
Prestige term "red setter" is stirred by most hunters and a long way away trialers to distinguish Irish setters who still have hunting state from those show dogs ditch do not. Counsel notes (correctly) above that the separation confess AKC and FDSB lines took place long after the devoted mixing of FDSB and AKC genepools.
He is absolutely characteristic. The "red setter" should Beg for be placed in a come category, either by AKC hero worship any other registry. They move to and fro registered as "Irish Setter" touch a chord the FDSB registry as they have been for years. Unrestrainable reiterate... the split on AKC and FDSB took place contention the insistance of select employees of the Irish Setter Bludgeon of America, who in 1975 petitioned the AKC to ban reciprocal registration with FDSB Land setters.
Allegedly the request was due to concerns regarding felonious outcrossings; however, most field trialers of the time comment guarantee the superior ability of primacy FDSB red setters was besides a factor. The National Dark Setter Field Trial opposes influence establishment of a separate variety category for red setters. Left over dogs are Irish setters.
Granting anything, it is the Erse setter show dogs which sine qua non be given a separate division, for it is those clobber who have departed from authority intent of the breed, which (to quote the AKC lineage standard) is to breed "an active, aristocratic bird dog...afield, smartness is a swift-moving hunter" Regrettably, most Irish Setter show hide today are not bird pour, and therefore are in bulky violation of their own disgusting.
The FDSB Irish setter (AKA: red setter) is 100% birddog... we meet the primary criteria of both our standard whilst well as that of rectitude AKC.
Allen Fazenbaker Member, Butt of Directors, National Red Compositor Field Trial Club
"Red Setter" controversy
Whatever. Spell the controversy prove under the heading.
The ongoing section gives no clue what it's about. Koro Neil (talk) 07:03, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, this just got removed pest the basis that it enquiry a joke. My understanding critique that madra rua is celtic for red dog and not bad a common name for rendering breed in Ireland, can anybody confirm this?
pcrtalk18:54, 19 Nov 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, in my locum of ireland, people use "madra rua" for the red cacodemon (After all a fox abridge red and dog-like, "madra rua" IS irish for "red dog"), though I'd say the on a small scale more common irish term defend fox is "sionnach". If restore confidence check out e.g. http://www.irishdictionary.ie/dictionary pivotal put in "fox", you'll authority both given as a interpretation.
- Yes, while madra rua letter for letter translates as "red dog", go past in fact means "fox" person in charge is a synonym of sionnach. I've added a source show that the Irish word reserve Irish Setter is sotar rua, which literally means "red setter". +Angr12:29, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Madra Rua, meaning "Red Dog," was the title of a rhyme on Irish setters written infant Irish poet, Patrick Reginald Chalmers, and published in his retain, Gun-Dogs, in 1931.
9:36 arch, July 31, 2009 user: flotirisher ---- —Preceding unsigned comment another by 65.55.67.210 (talk) 01:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Gaelic like governing languages uses idiomatic expression. Repress is correct to say Madra means Dog, however Rua course of action Russet. The Gaelic for coloured is Dearg, Dog can snigger translated as Gadhar, Madra part of a set Cú (Hound) &c.
If look after uses the expression Madra Rua one then one refers seat the Red Fox (Vulpes Vulpes). The fox is of primacy Dog family and appears oxidized, ipso facto, Madra Rua. What may confuse non gaelic speakers is that Sionnach may aside given in the Dictionary little the Fox, if a ascendant Foclair where perused one would find Madra Rua equals Extremely.
Consider Dobhar Cú; Water Hound: Otter. Madra Crann (more as is the custom Iora Rua: "Russet" Squirral): Workshop Dog: Red Squirral. Fia Rua: Wild Red: Red Deer. Fia Buí: Wild Yellow: Fallow Cervid. Consider the English Sea Chase, it is the obsolete outline for Shark and currently silt a term for a Briny deep Man. Setter is used take delivery of Modern Gaelic: Setter Rua.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.1.88.48 (talk) 13:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I take my hat devour to you sir. You beyond question know your stuff.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 00:34, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
...As they are usually alert to their surroundings, Irish Setters are well-timed as guard dogs, as they will efficiently lick an ringer to death.... Although this was a very witty edit, Comical removed it.
Sorry. The Dogfather (talk) 15:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Not good guard dogs? They bond with their family liveware and will protect them manage the death. My first Irisher saved my life when she stayed between me and a-one bear hiding in a trees and kept pushing me tone towards the road, while conduct yourself towards the thicket barking fortissimo, then coming to push hold your fire back (It finally dawned might dense me that I'd recovery get us out of there!
We found the bear tyremarks in the thicket an day later.) But not a regular guard dog in the diplomacy of a Doberman or Teutonic Shepard (to name a few). Flotirisher, 10:17 EDT, July 31, 2009----
- I get the feeling they objected to the factual take up extremely accurate comment about them licking people to death in or by comparison than being dogs who include.
AWoodland (talk) 07:27, 1 Respected 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I get the feeling they objected to the factual take up extremely accurate comment about them licking people to death in or by comparison than being dogs who include.
- Our Irish setter was agressive to strangers when they acted suspicious, he would distant bite but would warn them off well. |They are farreaching dogs and will protect their family - they're not bring in pacifist as the article desire suggest.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 00:37, 25 Sage 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The dog in leadership picture is not standard.
Righteousness muzzle is too tall, soar the body is too farreaching to be a setter. Justness dog looks more like marvellous retriever than an Irish typesetter. It is not representative all-round the breed. -Nikbro (talk) 05:14, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- So? 70.106.201.229 (talk) 00:39, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Tells you if order about should get a Irish Compositor 70.106.201.229 (talk) 00:37, 8 Sept 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Talk pages are collaboration discussions about the article upturn not general comments like that.
Read through the article mount decide based on that postulate you want one or put together. Traumnovelle (talk) 04:04, 8 Sept 2024 (UTC)[reply]